Jul 23 2008

Strategic negative ratings

Category: Uncategorized @ 11:26 pm

ThumbsLast week I asked that everyone go and rate the contest entries. People responded; however, there were a few too many Tonya Hardings and not enough Nancy Kerrigans. The whole affair raises the question of whether we should even have a thumbs down rating option.

We want Mental Magma to be a positive site, but it doesn’t have to be Fraggle Rock. Our initial thinking was that most sites that attempt to harness wisdom of crowds allow both positive and negative ratings. However, our little experiment might differ for one important reason…in our system there are potential incentives for rating others poorly.

So, we put it to you, the MM communtity, should we abolish the thumbs down rating? Or is the little squirt of dopamine you get after rating a really lousy answer worth the possibility of strategic negative use? Let us know in your comments on this post.

138 Responses to “Strategic negative ratings”

  1. greg hunter Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +2

    I am a Parkinson’s patient, so I am pretty sure I am qualified to inform you there is no significant clinical dopamine release (for me, at least) in voting against someone. In fact, I have always been of the opinion that we vote against someone simply by voting for someone else. As long as the thumbs-down option is not consistently used by everyone, its use will yield results that don’t necessarily reflect approval, but more accurately reveal strategic down voting of competitors. I don’t say this only because several of my entries went from 6 to 0 overnight, though if that were my only reason it wouldn’t be any less valid. It wouldn’t be difficult to organize a small group of independent computer-owning friends to log on vote up a buddy and down a competitor and have it appear legit. That’s why in Olympic judging, the high and low scores are dumped to avoid any one judge or coalition of judges to commandeer the outcome. This week’s prize is Amazon-sweet and potentially a door-opening experience. My advice to the folks who want to use these latest contest entries commercially is to read each entry, ignore the voting, and pick what you think will appeal to most people. I vote thumbs down on the thumbs down.

  2. IngShoe Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    In a perfect world where everyone is always fair and functions within a higher functioning moral code the thumbs down button would be a valuable option. We, however, live in this world. Given the reasons Greg so eloquently gave above, it would seem that the thumbs down button could be and has been used unfairly. This is a contest afterall. So, even though a group of computer friends could all vote for an entry to give it a nudge up, at least they couldn’t vote down a competitor with a good entry.

    Is it possible to hide the point results of the thumbs up/down rating like you did on the finalist vote? That way if you staffers feel an entry was manipulated you could eliminate it from the finalists and we’d never know it.

  3. IngShoe Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    On second thought, hiding the points wouldn’t prevent someone from voting down all entries other than his/her own. So I vote to only have a thumbs up rating.

  4. dlawhon Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    here, here; “losers” unite against the thumbs down.

  5. SomeGuyNamedDoug Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +1

    I think it’s more interesting to see the total number of people who like a certain thing (the thumbs up system), instead of the cumulative result of people liking and disliking (thumbs up & down).

  6. vlad Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +1

    I wouldn’t have allowed the thumbs down option, but then, I’m the
    ultimate cynic and would have assumed that it would have been misused.

  7. greg hunter Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    I quote Despair.com: “For every winner, there are dozens of losers. Odds are you’re one of them.”

  8. Brendan Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +1

    I’m with Vlad. The first thing I thought about when I saw the thumbs
    down feature was how to make an entry look better by comparison.

  9. Nietsche Pascal Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +2

    Realistically, some thumbs down votes, perhaps, most, are given in the spirit of Tanya Hardings’, but not necessarily all. I can conceive that one factor leading some to give thumbs down votes is related to the fact that the thumbs down/thumbs up method in this contest entails an all-or-none, rather than, a variable, system of evaluation. Giving a thumbs down vote to a particullar entry, therefore, is an effective way of differentially manipulating the relative value assigned to a given entry. For example, if I really, really, really like an entry in comparison to some other entries, then, I can communicate my judgment by giving stratigically placed series of thumbs up and down votes. In this case, the ability to give thumbs down is a valuable and fair feature to include in the contest. Nevertheless, I still would vote a thumbs down on the thumbs down feature, as did Greg and others above because there are better ways of fixing the all-or-none shortcoming in the present system. Being a senior university professor, I hope ya’ll bear with my taking the liberty of presenting one possible solution.

    The solution, I believe, entails changing the system of evaluation so that values other than the unitary up and down value can be assignend. I further like to suggest that the following points may be behelpful: A) Make voting costly to the voter, for example, by giving each a fixed number of votes per contest, say a total of ten, either positive or negative. A negative point, therefore, becomes as costly to a voter as a positive point. B) Since each contest ends in selecting the 5 finalists, then one does not need to vote all the entries, but only the best 5 by distributing the allowed votes amongst them. C) Implimenting step B would require that voters either hold off until one final designated day to distribute their votes, or re check their earlier votes at the end to make any final changes (one can re-distribute one’s vote allowance).

  10. dlawhon Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    That site was hilarious, my son read every single sign to me.

  11. Padma Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +1

    While I’d like to think people vote honestly by how they respond to the entries, I would like to see the MM site owners be the judges instead. You can leave the rating system if you like, but if MM owners are the judges, and ignore the other voters, then there is no incentive for voting down other entries.

  12. Gabriel Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    That actually is what we do. We probably need to make that more clear. We like to use the ratings as a rough guide, but reserve the right to use our own judgment. We’d like finalists to be a reflection of MM community opinion, but because of an imperfect system, it is sometimes necessary for us to go outside the rating system in our selections.

  13. Tiago Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    Yeah, thumbs down to the thumbs down. I’m sick of all those 0s.

  14. greg hunter Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    When I first read this, I liked the idea a lot, but I kept thinking how much easier it would be for the webfolks-in-charge to just pick the winners themselves. Really, it is their privilege to do that. It serves us right for thinking we were the center of the contest Universe anyway, and it makes the “Tanya Hardings” seem even more petty in their futile attempts to fix votes that don’t really count.

    Since they don’t count, by the way, why not keep both thumbs, but keep two separate tallies. If it’s just an academic pursuit, I wouldn’t mind knowing I had 6 positive votes and 6 negative votes…it’s way more interesting than thinking I’m just being ignored and earned a zero.

  15. Padma Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    I know you didn’t ask about this, but I have another idea about fair ratings (and I like the thumbs-up only option, so a positive rating doesn’t get erased by a negative one). I think it would be fairest to sort the newest entries at the top of the list instead of the bottom. Those who entered first are always at the top, and probably rated the most, and I assume some readers will not make it down the whole long list and rate all the entries.

  16. Gabriel Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    You don’t have to apologize, we welcome feedback and new ideas. The main issue with newest-first order comments is that replies get weird. Should they above or below the original comment? Really, we’ll probably have to rethink the current system eventually. Getting over 100 entries has made us realize we’re reaching the threshold of what we can utilize this blog’s comment system for. Don’t worry though, we have a few tricks in development.

  17. Tiago Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    First posters should haven an advantage. Also it’s the middle posts that don’t get attention, bottom also gets attention because it’s near the comment form.

  18. digitürk Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    … [Trackback]…

    [...] Find More Informations here: mentalmagma.com/archives/100 [...]…

  19. mark curry partners Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    … [Trackback]…

    [...] Read More here: mentalmagma.com/archives/100 [...]…

  20. ØªØ±ÙŠÙ†Ø Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    … [Trackback]…

    [...] Read More: mentalmagma.com/archives/100 [...]…

  21. clickfunnels 100 day challenge Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    … [Trackback]…

    [...] Informations on that Topic: mentalmagma.com/archives/100 [...]…

  22. subway surfers 2 Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    … [Trackback]…

    [...] There you will find 63667 more Infos: mentalmagma.com/archives/100 [...]…

  23. best whatsapp status urdu Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    … [Trackback]…

    [...] Read More here: mentalmagma.com/archives/100 [...]…

  24. Skrotbilar köpes Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    … [Trackback]…

    [...] There you will find 86281 more Infos: mentalmagma.com/archives/100 [...]…

  25. mike tyson Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    ij13eq Wow! This could be one particular of the most useful blogs We ave ever arrive across on this subject. Basically Great. I am also a specialist in this topic therefore I can understand your effort.

  26. step sister Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    … [Trackback]…

    [...] Read More Infos here: mentalmagma.com/archives/100 [...]…

  27. seo backlinks Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    … [Trackback]…

    [...] Find More Informations here: mentalmagma.com/archives/100 [...]…

  28. playboy slot Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    … [Trackback]…

    [...] Informations on that Topic: mentalmagma.com/archives/100 [...]…

  29. Free Adult Chat Rooms Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    … [Trackback]…

    [...] Find More Informations here: mentalmagma.com/archives/100 [...]…

  30. economics tuition Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    … [Trackback]…

    [...] There you will find 73473 more Infos: mentalmagma.com/archives/100 [...]…

  31. understanding Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    … [Trackback]…

    [...] Find More Informations here: mentalmagma.com/archives/100 [...]…

  32. rv roadside assistance Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    … [Trackback]…

    [...] Find More Informations here: mentalmagma.com/archives/100 [...]…

  33. Skrota bil Göteborg Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    … [Trackback]…

    [...] Read More here: mentalmagma.com/archives/100 [...]…

  34. mca Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    … [Trackback]…

    [...] Informations on that Topic: mentalmagma.com/archives/100 [...]…

  35. Google Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    The time to study or take a look at the subject material or internet sites we’ve linked to below.

  36. butt plug Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    very few internet sites that occur to become detailed below, from our point of view are undoubtedly well really worth checking out

  37. Google Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    Always a big fan of linking to bloggers that I really like but don

  38. Best News Website in World Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    … [Trackback]…

    [...] Read More here: mentalmagma.com/archives/100 [...]…

  39. Best Best Online News in the World Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    … [Trackback]…

    [...] Informations on that Topic: mentalmagma.com/archives/100 [...]…

  40. Best Best Online News in the World Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    … [Trackback]…

    [...] There you will find 63594 more Infos: mentalmagma.com/archives/100 [...]…

  41. Best Best Online News in the World Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    … [Trackback]…

    [...] Read More here: mentalmagma.com/archives/100 [...]…

  42. Buy Phentermine Without Prescription Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    below you will obtain the link to some web-sites that we believe you should visit

  43. GVK BIO Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    … [Trackback]…

    [...] Find More Informations here: mentalmagma.com/archives/100 [...]…

  44. GVK Biosciences Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    … [Trackback]…

    [...] Read More here: mentalmagma.com/archives/100 [...]…

  45. sex toys Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    Wonderful story, reckoned we could combine a handful of unrelated data, nevertheless definitely really worth taking a appear, whoa did one study about Mid East has got extra problerms too

  46. silicone cock ring Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    Wonderful story, reckoned we could combine a handful of unrelated data, nonetheless genuinely worth taking a search, whoa did one particular study about Mid East has got more problerms as well

  47. recovery data Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    The info mentioned inside the article are a number of the most effective offered

  48. feng shui ideas Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    usually posts some pretty interesting stuff like this. If you are new to this site

  49. Hoagies Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    Wonderful story, reckoned we could combine a couple of unrelated data, nonetheless seriously worth taking a look, whoa did 1 discover about Mid East has got a lot more problerms also

  50. Google Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    Sites of interest we have a link to.

  51. Buy Phentermine Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    below you will obtain the link to some sites that we believe you need to visit

  52. Cheap St.Louis Cardinals Hats Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    we came across a cool site that you may possibly get pleasure from. Take a search in the event you want

  53. 韓国エスコートアガシ Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    one of our guests recently suggested the following website

  54. Arduino Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    check beneath, are some totally unrelated web-sites to ours, even so, they may be most trustworthy sources that we use

  55. nfc tag Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    always a major fan of linking to bloggers that I adore but really don’t get quite a bit of link love from

  56. apps for pc download Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    here are some hyperlinks to web-sites that we link to because we feel they may be really worth visiting

  57. a world tour & travel Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    Here are a few of the internet sites we recommend for our visitors

  58. pc games for windows 8 Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    the time to read or go to the material or web-sites we’ve linked to beneath the

  59. travel guide qatar Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    check beneath, are some entirely unrelated internet sites to ours, nonetheless, they may be most trustworthy sources that we use

  60. eat well travel often etsy Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    the time to read or check out the content material or web sites we have linked to below the

  61. traveling low carb Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    below you will obtain the link to some internet sites that we assume you need to visit

  62. 福井脱毛 Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    Wonderful story, reckoned we could combine a handful of unrelated information, nevertheless truly really worth taking a look, whoa did 1 study about Mid East has got extra problerms also

  63. business travel gear Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    check below, are some entirely unrelated web-sites to ours, nevertheless, they are most trustworthy sources that we use

  64. 5ivemile photography Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    … [Trackback]…

    [...] Find More Informations here: mentalmagma.com/archives/100 [...]…

  65. 福井脱毛 Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    Sites of interest we have a link to

  66. 福井脱毛 Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    the time to study or pay a visit to the content or websites we’ve linked to below the

  67. who is known for traveling around the worlda whole new world travel Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    very handful of web sites that take place to be detailed beneath, from our point of view are undoubtedly very well really worth checking out

  68. getting over an affair Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    usually posts some really exciting stuff like this. If you

  69. gems bhutan travels Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    although web-sites we backlink to below are considerably not associated to ours, we really feel they may be in fact really worth a go via, so possess a look

  70. travel places alone Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    usually posts some quite exciting stuff like this. If you

  71. http://www.modnatorba.com/products-page/kuferki/?view=list Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    … [Trackback]…

    [...] Read More: mentalmagma.com/archives/100 [...]…

  72. travel agencies atlanta Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    please take a look at the internet sites we follow, including this 1, as it represents our picks in the web

  73. travel avoiding zone 1 Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    Sites of interest we have a link to

  74. k fashion des moines Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    usually posts some extremely exciting stuff like this. If you are new to this site

  75. fashion world krugersdorp Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    we prefer to honor lots of other net sites around the net, even if they aren

  76. appetite 2012 Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    we like to honor numerous other net web sites on the net, even when they aren

  77. fashion week outfits Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    one of our guests recently encouraged the following website

  78. brand with heart eyes Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    that will be the finish of this report. Here you will obtain some web sites that we assume you

  79. best work from home jobs 2017 Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    just beneath, are many entirely not related internet sites to ours, having said that, they may be surely really worth going over

  80. Cheap Chicago Cubs Jerseys Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    Here is a superb Blog You may Discover Interesting that we Encourage You

  81. Buy beats online Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    always a big fan of linking to bloggers that I appreciate but don

  82. خرید سرور مجازی Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    very few internet sites that happen to be detailed below, from our point of view are undoubtedly well really worth checking out

  83. dresses 1 piece Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    always a big fan of linking to bloggers that I enjoy but really don’t get a good deal of link enjoy from

  84. 金科長dvd Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    here are some hyperlinks to websites that we link to because we believe they are really worth visiting

  85. j lewis maxi dresses Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    usually posts some incredibly interesting stuff like this. If you are new to this site

  86. 47 street fashion Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    one of our guests recently proposed the following website

  87. home improvement 9th season Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    one of our guests recently encouraged the following website

  88. Chicago Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    we came across a cool web page that you just may possibly love. Take a appear when you want

  89. 100% kona Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    here are some links to web pages that we link to since we feel they are really worth visiting

  90. process Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    just beneath, are numerous absolutely not related websites to ours, having said that, they may be certainly worth going over

  91. Permit Expediting Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    just beneath, are numerous absolutely not related internet sites to ours, however, they may be certainly worth going over

  92. 0 home depot Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    that may be the end of this report. Right here you

  93. videos Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    Wonderful story, reckoned we could combine a few unrelated data, nonetheless genuinely really worth taking a search, whoa did one understand about Mid East has got far more problerms also

  94. home improvement 7x04 Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    usually posts some quite fascinating stuff like this. If you

  95. furniture house kolkata Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    the time to read or pay a visit to the subject material or internet sites we’ve linked to beneath the

  96. dirty talk Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    Here is a good Blog You may Uncover Interesting that we Encourage You

  97. Daytona Margaritaville Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    Here are a number of the web pages we recommend for our visitors

  98. kona 100% Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    Here is a good Weblog You may Obtain Interesting that we Encourage You

  99. best kona Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    always a large fan of linking to bloggers that I enjoy but do not get a lot of link love from

  100. iPad repair Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    we like to honor a lot of other internet internet sites on the internet, even when they aren

  101. Irrigation system Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    we came across a cool website that you may well appreciate. Take a search should you want

  102. web site Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    below you

  103. home garden jaipur Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    one of our guests not too long ago advised the following website

  104. cool game Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    here are some links to web-sites that we link to because we assume they are worth visiting

  105. l shaped home design images Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    Here are some of the web pages we suggest for our visitors

  106. crystal Beads Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    check beneath, are some totally unrelated sites to ours, even so, they are most trustworthy sources that we use

  107. home design rugs Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    Here are some of the internet sites we recommend for our visitors

  108. jia g home decor studio Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    The information mentioned within the write-up are several of the ideal offered

  109. sims 2 home decor downloads Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    we like to honor many other world-wide-web websites on the internet, even if they aren

  110. decorating ideas ranch style homes Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    very couple of internet websites that come about to become detailed beneath, from our point of view are undoubtedly very well really worth checking out

  111. wedding shoes 1 inch heel Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    always a massive fan of linking to bloggers that I adore but really don’t get a lot of link like from

  112. sexually transmitted diseases Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    the time to read or stop by the material or sites we have linked to below the

  113. dating tips Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    we like to honor many other internet web sites around the web, even when they aren

  114. whips for sale Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    below you

  115. Must Have Sex Toys Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    Here is an excellent Blog You may Locate Intriguing that we Encourage You

  116. cana wedding catholic Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    one of our visitors not too long ago proposed the following website

  117. Dildos Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    always a significant fan of linking to bloggers that I enjoy but don

  118. cardio instructor Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    Sites of interest we have a link to

  119. best kona Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    The details talked about within the article are a number of the ideal available

  120. pure kona Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    that may be the finish of this write-up. Here you will find some websites that we think you will enjoy, just click the hyperlinks over

  121. TensorFlow Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    the time to study or pay a visit to the content material or internet sites we have linked to beneath the

  122. wedding invitations zoo Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    Here is a good Weblog You may Locate Interesting that we Encourage You

  123. bone graft Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    Wonderful story, reckoned we could combine a handful of unrelated information, nevertheless truly really worth taking a search, whoa did 1 learn about Mid East has got far more problerms as well

  124. sexual Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    please pay a visit to the web sites we adhere to, including this one, as it represents our picks in the web

  125. How To Use A Strap On Dildo Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    very couple of web-sites that come about to be comprehensive below, from our point of view are undoubtedly very well really worth checking out

  126. Happy birthday bodybuilding Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    the time to study or go to the subject material or websites we have linked to beneath the

  127. Funny birthday meme Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    Here are several of the web-sites we advocate for our visitors

  128. Adult Store Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    Every once in a although we pick blogs that we study. Listed below are the most recent web-sites that we select

  129. Purchase Beer Online Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    here are some hyperlinks to web sites that we link to due to the fact we believe they may be worth visiting

  130. wedding jewelry designs indian Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    we prefer to honor a lot of other internet internet sites on the net, even when they aren

  131. wedding rings 9ct yellow gold Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    Sites of interest we have a link to

  132. wedding cake base Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    always a massive fan of linking to bloggers that I adore but really don’t get quite a bit of link really like from

  133. r&g wedding and party rentals Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    we like to honor quite a few other world wide web web-sites on the web, even though they aren

  134. wedding arrangements list in sri lanka Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    Here is a good Weblog You might Uncover Fascinating that we Encourage You

  135. adam and eve Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    we like to honor quite a few other online sites on the web, even when they aren

  136. HPMC capsules Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    here are some links to websites that we link to because we assume they may be really worth visiting

  137. places to stay in ventura Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    that may be the finish of this report. Right here you will find some web sites that we assume you will appreciate, just click the hyperlinks over

  138. Enterprise Web Hosting Says:
     Add karma Add double karma  +0

    below you will discover the link to some web-sites that we believe you should visit

Leave a Reply

You can add images to your comment by clicking here.